Petition being debated (again)

Maxywell

Peasant the 1st
#1
I see the latest e-petition is being debated on Nov 26th.Doesn't give either side much time to prepare and the fact that it's being debated so soon after the last one is concerning.Might be a good time for people to write to their mps and show some pro support because the moaners have been writing to/annoying them for weeks.
 
#2
I see the latest e-petition is being debated on Nov 26th.Doesn't give either side much time to prepare and the fact that it's being debated so soon after the last one is concerning.Might be a good time for people to write to their mps and show some pro support because the moaners have been writing to/annoying them for weeks.
moaning has been off the hook this year! especially on twitter but i know for a fact most people want fireworks available.
 

Gaz

Administrator
Sovereign the 6th
#3
I cannot see the government doing anything drastic, as they know themselves fireworks will go straight to the black market, and be very much a lot worse with yobs then it is now. is there a link to this partition?
 

AnthonyUKpyro

Royal Knight the 2nd
#4
As I have said zillions of times, a retail sale ban will NEVER EVER work, because an illegal blackmarket in untested uncertified unclassified imported fireworks will immediately take over from legal sales of BS-EN 15947 regulated consumer fireworks, and once that happens, you open a perfect storm not even the Govt can be able to stop. If you can't stop illegal cigarettes, illegal drugs etc being flogged to people, and even getting into the hands of kids, then I doubt it very much that you can stop dangerous and illegal fireworks getting into the hands of the public.

Also a very dangerous situation will also arise as a result of a ban, and that is, things that were banned from sale like aerial shells, oversized powerful fireworks and Chinese crackers could make a comeback - result = even more deaths and accidents.

Is this a worthwhile price worth paying for a sale ban on retail consumer fireworks?

The do-gooders are so thick to realise this fact and are wholly ignorant to it.

All this shyte and nonsense about austerity and police cuts to me at least, is RUBBISH and utter nonsensical balderdash because the Police forces of the United Kingdom should be working pro-actively, pulling their finger out and enforcing the firework laws we have, not prioritizing what they will and won't enforce and refusing to prosecute those responsible.

The fireworks are not the problem, it's the kids who misuse them and their ignorant lazy parents who refuse to punish their offspring when they have caused injuries accidents and deliberate fires with fireworks.

I have no issue with a responsible dad setting off a selection box of fireworks for their little ones responsibly safely and properly, that I can tolerate and live with. That ain't an issue but the anti firework do-gooders unfairly target all with same brush saying "even they can't be trusted".
 
#5
I agree that a debate so soon after the last one is very worrying. However I think we can be safe in the knowledge that a lot of work goes on behind the scenes to keep govt on side. Not to mention, in these testing financial times, they cannot afford to lose the VAT, import duty, license fees, business rates, corporation tax etc that fireworks sales bring in every year. Nor can the NHS afford to deal with the extra injuries caused by the inevitable black market sales increase. Nor will they want to make the 000's of people directly or indirectly employed by the industry redundant. These things are all issues that narrow minded campaigners don't even stop to think about
 

Maxywell

Peasant the 1st
#6
I'm a bit more worried about this one than the last 2 to be honest.Think it might be worth writing to your mp and signing the pro fireworks petition... https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/232242

Also it couldn't hurt to message a few retailers on fb and ask them to post the link on their page.Some of them have a good few thousand followers who probably have no idea that there's a debate.That petition could do so much better if it got shared around the pro firework pages.
 

Gaz

Administrator
Sovereign the 6th
#7
I'm a bit more worried about this one than the last 2 to be honest.Think it might be worth writing to your mp and signing the pro fireworks petition... https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/232242

Also it couldn't hurt to message a few retailers on fb and ask them to post the link on their page.Some of them have a good few thousand followers who probably have no idea that there's a debate.That petition could do so much better if it got shared around the pro firework pages.
well i have shared across the network!.
 
#8
I've contacted my local MP, to make it clear that Taunton Deane is not an anti-firework constituency. Only 0.4% of the population have signed the petition to ban fireworks, it's such a small minority
 

Gaz

Administrator
Sovereign the 6th
#9
I've contacted my local MP, to make it clear that Taunton Deane is not an anti-firework constituency. Only 0.4% of the population have signed the petition to ban fireworks, it's such a small minority
Tbh I think it's out of order we have to go these lengths. I know a outright ban will never happen but this petition should help just incase it happens. :unsure: @Maxywell thanks for setting it up. (y)
 

Maxywell

Peasant the 1st
#10
It's not actually my petition somebody on ukfr started it last week.It just wouldn't look very good if all the anti petitions raced away and left it as the least signed.It won't get near the top 2 but it shouldn't be hard to get it ahead of the other 10 if a few people share it.
 

Maddog

Esquire the 5th
#14
Here we go

I am PRO fireworks and I watched last year's debate thoroughly and felt it lacked any real representation from 2 aspects

1. The general consumer who actually enjoys fire works both as a celebration for various events as defined by law and allowed with current legislations and to celebrate the story of Guido fawkes commonly known as guy fawkes

2. The firework industry there are plenty of year round sellers within the UK that any changes or outright bans effect and feel they were missed out

I would love both points to be addressed heck even invite someone from both aspects to get a diverse range of views

But watching last year's debate its seems year in year out this is always an issue and the debate always has the same complaints

1.animal welfare
2.ptsd suffers
3.children and elderly
4.anti social misuse
5.injuries

I will personally adress each of these and would welcome any speaker at the debate actually I would urge them to share this perspective

1.I agree fireworks will scare animals and I am an animal lover i have dogs and cats throughout life but have brought them up round pyrotechnics and they have been fine they usually are gave some sedative music will be played and they are checked and interacted with during any celebration they may bark but no more than normal

I am saddened when I hear stories about horses or cats injured or worse etc however we delve into the ins and outs some fireworks are loud and some pitch at a frequency that hurts however these are within government regulations and I can assure you there are louder more damaging things you can buy over a counter but a lot of the stories i hear they are not caused by fireworks but however are caused by misuse of these by youths or someone under the influence of drugs or drink you can't blame a inanimate object for injuring something if its been directly applied or aimed at by its third party user its the analogy of guns dont kill people the person firing it does the gun is just a prop within it same with fireworks

As a whole if fireworks are used and adhered to with the instructions they would never cause any harm to animals

Partly the safety of your animal is down to you and your common sense

2. Ptsd is a very serious condition and I will not tske it away from any sufferer however I have spoke on forums both firework related and non firework related to people who suffer this illness and with respect to their privacy after asking them they have stated the following

Before deploying i celebrated bonfire night like the rest of the country and loved it after serving and returning to the UK i was diagnosed with ptsd bonfire night can be a stressful time for me however I still celebrate with fireworks even some louder cakes my ptsd does flare up i do have coping mechanisms but there are other noises that will set ptsd off car backfires are notorious for it should I asked cars to be banned no its finding and respecting others right to celebrate their beleifs if its bonfire night Diwali new year or Chinese New year theres history and heritage being celebrated would we want to lose that

3. Children and elderly i see this complaint every year and personally I feel it's not a valid arguement due to the mixture Here I know my son and my neice love them however my autistic nephew doesnt so I see both views the same applies to older generations some love them some dont to use this as an anchor to ban is invalid as it simply has no merit due to conflicting and ratio interests

Again this part is short but when its a mixed bag of like and dislike you can't really use it as evidence unfortunately

4.anti social misuse I agree with most of the anti firework brigade on this matter

The stories of it goes off all month and all the way to new year i fear these are half truths they may well be going off early than new year but highly unlikely at the level described and having lived in various areas i feel I represent good personal experience on that

However there is high levels of misuse of these and is generally with youths again you can't blame the firework here its the seller and the youth whom are the issue not the firework in comparison with underage drinking and knife crime in youths the issue is always going to be there no matter the crimilinality the problem here is the enforcement of the law

There is not enough enforcement of the law when it comes to fireworks this can be a variety of reasons budget cuts other priorities etx

Look at it this way

Someone sets fireworks off at 11.30pm in turn breaking the law

And at the same time there are drunk fights happening in an area

Or a stabbing has took place alongside a robbery

Even if you report the antisocial misuse the police only have limited resource im sorry but I'd rather they got to the stabbing than someone lighting a firework the problem here is the high youth and adult misuse of them and the emergency services severely underfunded and facing more budget cuts they simply don't have the resources to stretch to enforce the laws which are highly applicable to the industry as is

I must stress if you bury and follow the instructions of a firework which is clearly on the packaging then they always will be completely safe if you dont thats when issues happen

5.injuries

Year in year out i see the stories on firework related injuries and again a lot of this is down to misuse distraction not following instruction either via a parent or the packaging

I agree there are no real statistics for injuries but I know for sure most of these are no doubt sparkler related i remember a press story a few years back covering this there was a recorded 1000 injuries over a period of a few years and 900 of them alone were sparkler based no doubt accidental injuries from not following the instruction or using common sense

Again if you ban you put these regulated fireworks to a black market of unregulated to which there is a market allready i read a story of a young boy in Glasgow who found a banger and unfortunately blew his hands off now bangers were banned in the 1997 changes along with Ariel shells however these are readily available on the black market and are more powerful than your dearer fireworks trust me

Fireworks are limited to powder content and dcb levels forcing a ban forces them to a black market were no regs apply and these become a lot more dangerous a lot more volatile and then the misuse would cause more injuries

Again most injuries i see and read fall into these categories

Misuse
not following instruction
Using common sense

I would say around maybe 5% of injuries if even that occur when everything is followed to the book even statistics couldnt be fully evidential as if you're asked if u used it correctly when you haven't at accident and emergency most would lie and say they did

Closing statement

To ban fireworks would be stupid i feel there could be tweaks in the law especially for horses i.e criminal offence to do it near farmland paddocks etc without landowners permissions

You would then lose out on the tax the vat the duty these make and what the industry is worth to the economy the people it employs directly around 250 yearly this does increase during the season then indirectly with courier delivering adr goods and those shipping and importing them

You may feel the producers are the problem their not do you know a well known brand now works with the military brocks being the brand ban fireworks you ban the help they provide to armed services and personell

They are and never will be explosives they are pyrotechnics they are two different things explovies are compounds like tnt semtext tatp so on and so forth fireworks contain ingredients that you see in chemistry lithium potassium etc in certain arrangement and flash powder with using physics to give it a charge to fire item into the air

Theres a difference between the 2

The main issue with fireworks on the surface falls down to misuse and the inability to enforce laws that are well suited to the task

I would love to attend this petition and debate the views as I feel the consumer who loves fireworks are left out in the debates

But to those who are not for fireworks i ask one question a ban simply will never work so Being realistic what changes would you like to make or see occur
 

zephieish

Moderator
Royal Knight the 1st
#15
The government has responded, it's very positive.

Regardless of how the debate will go, which is usually quite bad, it looks like no changes are or will be implemented in the near future.

We can all carry on and enjoy our hobby and tradition for the foreseeable future :)
 
#16
That's a brilliant response, very balanced and coherent, explains in black and white what the rules are and clearly supports the prosecution of illegal users. There's plenty the government do wrong but you can't deny they're very clued up when it comes to this issue and what the rules are and the issues with further restriction. Couldn't have gone much better really :)
 

Gaz

Administrator
Sovereign the 6th
#17
the reactions of the anti brigade are all over facebook. But its like I keep pointing out to them education is key.
 
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#19
Good post, although there are official government statistics for injuries which are so low... around 160 per year if i recall correctly with no deaths recorded since 2000. If you take into consideration that most injuries are from sparklers and misuse by yobs then the stats indicate that fireworks aren't of great concern safety wise as long as the are treated with respect.
 

AnthonyUKpyro

Royal Knight the 2nd
#20
I knew commonsense would win out in the end ;) The Govt have listened to reason and once again triumphed over the do-gooders who are the anti-firework fun police. :)
 
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