Facecoverings in shops - will this become compulsory at bonfires and fireworks displays too this year?

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AnthonyUKpyro

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Feb 13, 2013
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Now it's been confirmed that facecoverings are to be compulsory in shops a week on Friday, will the same restrictions be placed on outdoor events i.e bonfires and fireworks displays for Autumn / Halloween and Bonfire Night later this year, at least for those that are allowed to happen and for all people there, the rule that facecoverings MUST be worn by all spectators, display team firers, food van vendors, etc with no exceptions ?

There shouldn't be a need for display team firers to wear cloth facemasks under their visors anyway, in theory, because they have full face visors on their hard hats which will prevent the spread of the virus.

Also cloth facemasks worn by firers in safety goggles present a hazard because if they melt and burn caught by sparks from a firework they would stick to the face causing severe facial burns to the firer hence why I say a visor while firing to protect the face affixed to a hard hat is better.

Now, this (unpopular) requirement might cause a fair bit of friction with the event spectators and in such cases -

(a) I can very well see and imagine some very stroppy and angry 'I will do whatever I want' spectators who will aggressively refuse to wear a cloth facemask even though event organisers may make it mandatory and COMPULSORY,

and (b) those told what to do who will try to break through any entrance with people checking for compliance with any 'facecoverings at outdoor public events' rules / requirements,

and (c) secondly police will have more pressing matters to deal with in Autumn, and especially around Halloween and Bonfire Night with firework misusing youths and out of control bonfires than come to a firework display and arrest people who refuse to comply with any 'facecoverings at public events' rule(s) which may or may not be imposed (the police cannot be everywhere at once will be severely stretched around that time anyway).

There may also be such high anarchy around the rules that events could be cut off and cancelled by event organisers, spectators told to go home and that fairground rides, food vans etc are closing as well as the fireworks disay being stopped by the display team ordered to stop by the organisers during the events as well as the bonfire being extinguished.

The Govt are opening an interesting and possibly dangerous can of worms with their powers, and sadly it could all well backfire in their faces and rather badly too - fact.
 
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Somersetpyro

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Short answer: No
Long Answer: Outside, it's very evident that the virus doesn't spread anything like as well as it does indoors, so I don't see it as necessary at all outside. Inside however, it makes sense. Particularly as people don't seem to care about social distancing any more. All Govt is doing in this situation is making a common sense move. And I shall be enforcing it at our business here
 

AnthonyUKpyro

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Feb 13, 2013
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Short answer: No
Long Answer: Outside, it's very evident that the virus doesn't spread anything like as well as it does indoors, so I don't see it as necessary at all outside. Inside however, it makes sense. Particularly as people don't seem to care about social distancing any more. All Govt is doing in this situation is making a common sense move. And I shall be enforcing it at our business here
Inside, yes I agree it is advisory to do so, but some theme parks and amusement parks are tightly enforcing the use of facemasks / facecoverings in their establishments, even though people are outdoors as well as covered rides / attractions and not just merely on rides either, some are also applying it in such a way too, saying they MUST BE WORN AT ALL TIMES, and that's even if you are just merely walking around the park with your family (Pleasure Island at Skegness is one example, which is, definitely doing that).

I bet some bonfire night events this year with a fairground and fireworks display may or may not take it onboard and enforce a compulsory 'wearing of masks' rule.

I think some could be playing with caution and are afraid of possible litigation if someone unwittingly spreads covid19 to others there.
 

Somersetpyro

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Inside, yes I agree it is advisory to do so, but some theme parks and amusement parks are tightly enforcing the use of facemasks / facecoverings in their establishments, even though people are outdoors as well as covered rides / attractions and not just merely on rides either, some are also applying it in such a way too, saying they MUST BE WORN AT ALL TIMES, and that's even if you are just merely walking around the park with your family (Pleasure Island at Skegness is one example, which is, definitely doing that).

I bet some bonfire night events this year with a fairground and fireworks display may or may not take it onboard and enforce a compulsory 'wearing of masks' rule.

I think some could be playing with caution and are afraid of possible litigation if someone unwittingly spreads covid19 to others there.
Theme parks are interesting, cos of course, as private establishments, they're entitled to enforce rules they see fit. I was at Alton Towers last week, where you have to wear a mask on some of the rides, but not in the grounds. Which i complied with, and tbf it didn't detract from the experience in any way. I would never choose to wear a mask outside, but if that's the rules then so be it, if i don't like it then i'm not obliged to go there :) It would be the same with any bonfire events. If they want to enforce such a rule, that's their choice, and if people don't like such a rule then they can go to an event that doesn't have it, or they can use pyro at home

All this naturally excludes people with disabilities, which is fair enough if it'll cause them significant breathing issues
 
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If it was really that helpful why wait till 24/07/2020 its a gimmick to placate labour and some big business's if somebody gets ill.

You don't have to wear masks in pubs and restaurants.
 
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All this naturally excludes people with disabilities, which is fair enough if it'll cause them significant breathing issues

Does this mean they need to show there blue badge? The blue badge only works for cars, I know blind people have guide dogs? Will they be told and informed. What about people who had chemo?
 

Somersetpyro

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All this naturally excludes people with disabilities, which is fair enough if it'll cause them significant breathing issues

Does this mean they need to show there blue badge? The blue badge only works for cars, I know blind people have guide dogs? Will they be told and informed. What about people who had chemo?
There is apparently a card that people who are exempt can get, which they can show to bus drivers, train staff, shop staff, police etc to demonstrate that they're exempt. Not all disabled people are exempt, only those for whom wearing a mask would cause a medical problem or those who physically cannot wear a mask for whatever reason
 
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Somersetpyro

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Shop workers are exempt because the employer would've already put processes in place to keep them safe. There's screens on tills, there's closures for restocking, and countless others. What the employer cannot do, is force customers to social distance. The bottom line is this: this is now a legal requirement only because the British people are incapable of doing a very simple thing such as keeping 2m apart from another person
 
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The government also warned that for face coverings to be effective, people must wash their hands before putting them on and taking them off.

From the sun website, So this means clean hands so are there hand sanitizers at check outs if i get asked to remove my face mask if asked for ID. Are the police going to carry hand sanitizers or do i need to carry my own, if they ask me to remove my mask?

I don't think the government put too much thought into this.

If i had asthma and went to a restaurant for a meal, Nobody there needs to wear as mask as these places are exempt. But then if i popped into a supermarket and get asked all i need to show is a printed at home exemption card.
 

Somersetpyro

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Seeing you are a manager in retail, you cant legally stop people shopping if they wear these.

I can legally stop anyone I want to, as long as its not descrimination. I am not obliged to provide service to anyone. And I can legally tell my staff their mask is unacceptable if it doesn't comply with company uniform policies. Fortunately all my guys are very sensible and wouldn't even consider wearing a mask such as you suggest

As for removal of masks for ID, we are not obliged to provide hand sanitiser for that. Although we do have it available at the entrance. If a customer doesn't want to remove their mask so we can verify their age, they will simply be unable to buy the age restricted goods.
 

AnthonyUKpyro

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Theme parks are interesting, cos of course, as private establishments, they're entitled to enforce rules they see fit. I was at Alton Towers last week, where you have to wear a mask on some of the rides, but not in the grounds. Which i complied with, and tbf it didn't detract from the experience in any way. I would never choose to wear a mask outside, but if that's the rules then so be it, if i don't like it then i'm not obliged to go there :) It would be the same with any bonfire events. If they want to enforce such a rule, that's their choice, and if people don't like such a rule then they can go to an event that doesn't have it, or they can use pyro at home

All this naturally excludes people with disabilities, which is fair enough if it'll cause them significant breathing issues
There is also another problem that hasn't been factored in and / or has been catered for either by this Govt, and that is.....if there is very little wind or no wind to blow away bonfire and firework smoke on the days these events take place as occasionally happens in late October / early November (say a stubborn high pressure area is slap bang over the UK with sunny days and still nights as a result with night-time fog and frost), then people with breathing difficulties and / or asthma at the events (if they were made to wear facecoverings in the open air) could very well suffer.

If this was to happen, then it may very well lead to compensation claims made to event organisers and possible legal challenges to the Government with judges ruling that the coronavirus legislation relating to outdoor events placed on firework displays and / or bonfires requiring that 'facemasks or facecoverings be worn by spectators' was impracticable and most unreasonable where weather conditions played a part.

This unplanned for scenario could very well have serious implications for Govt rules on outdoor public events regarding the compulsory wearing of facecoverings / facemasks or visors by spectators' and could well cause serious problems too.

I wouldn't personally insist on anyone having to wear facecoverings and facemasks / visors at bonfires and fireworks displays because in the open air outdoors it is far less of a risk than it is to persons crowded indoors.

I might even send a letter to the Govt highlighting this potential unforeseen problem and see what comes of it......stay tuned!
 
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Somersetpyro

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Dec 16, 2013
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There is also another problem that hasn't been factored in and / or has been catered for either by this Govt, and that is.....if there is very little wind or no wind to blow away bonfire and firework smoke on the days these events take place as occasionally happens in late October / early November (say a stubborn high pressure area is slap bang over the UK with sunny days and still nights as a result with night-time fog and frost), then people with breathing difficulties and / or asthma at the events (if they were made to wear facecoverings in the open air) could very well suffer.

If this was to happen, then it may very well lead to compensation claims made to event organisers and possible legal challenges to the Government with judges ruling that the coronavirus legislation relating to outdoor events placed on firework displays and / or bonfires requiring that 'facemasks or facecoverings be worn by spectators' was impracticable and most unreasonable where weather conditions played a part.

This unplanned for scenario could very well have serious implications for Govt rules on outdoor public events regarding the compulsory wearing of facecoverings / facemasks or visors by spectators' and could well cause serious problems too.

I wouldn't personally insist on anyone having to wear facecoverings and facemasks / visors at bonfires and fireworks displays because in the open air outdoors it is far less of a risk than it is to persons crowded indoors.

I might even send a letter to the Govt highlighting this potential unforeseen problem and see what comes of it......stay tuned!
Credit where it's due, I don't think that would've been a priority for them, nor should it have been. It's a very specific problem. And tbh face masks wouldn't make the issues caused by smoke worse, it's potent enough in the open air for those with breathing difficulties. Not to mention, as we know, these people are exempt from wearing a mask anyway